Paint effect and polishing

Nigel Alltimes · Post by **Nigel Alltimes** » 17 Oct 2003, 09:42

I have just had my mothers piano renovated, which was expensive and cost more than the piano is worth. However, it has great sentimental value and I do not mind.

My mothers' parents had it 'modernised' in the the 50's or 60's, which included removing walnut panels, candellabra's and 'giving it a sleek modern look'.

When it was returned to me after the recent renovation I was horrified, because it looks like a brown painted lump of wood - I couldn't accept it in that state. Apparently, the modernisation removed the veneers completely in some places and the new panels were of different wood. The modernisers had given it a paint effect and polished it, which looked very acceptable. When it was retuned to me the polisher had stained it a dark brown to make it even all over.

The person who renovated my piano know's no-one who can reproduce this paint effect and I am desperate to have my piano back. Does anyone know of such a person - ideally not too far from Gloucestershire.

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 17 Oct 2003, 17:08

You need a true French Polisher they hand paint on the wood effect the guy who works with me is brill at it but too far to come out to you the other way
would be to do it black. One of the Polishers form Woodchesters may help but you would need to find out who they were are the company is no longer
there.

Boy were there some damage done to some nice cases back in the 60s

Barrie,

Nigel Alltimes · Post by **Nigel Alltimes** » 17 Oct 2003, 17:35

Barrie,

Thank you for the reply.

The guy that renovated the piano for me did consultancy work with Woodchester and I think he was a director there at one time. He doesn't think that there was anyone there with the skill any more. I actually bought one of their pianos at the liquidatiuon auction - a real bargain and I am very pleased with it.

I am sure there must be someone around here who can do it though - I'll just have to keep looking.

Nigel

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 17 Oct 2003, 18:04

Nigel Alltimes wrote:I am sure there must be someone around here who can do it though - I'll just have to keep looking.

Nigel

Good old Yellow pages

Barrie,

Pheonix · Post by **Pheonix** » 16 Jul 2007, 17:24

For what its worth, you really need a Trompe l'oeil painter somebody trained in the art of woodgraining "Faux Bois", they would need to match the original timber and probably blend the two together...The Phrase Trompe l'oeil means to trick the eye...so it looks real but is in fact painted...we generally say the trick has to work from 3ft distance...if the trick works the painter has been succesful..anything closer than that then your painter is a God!

Best place to find a bod like this is via something like House and garden, see a selection of painters and ask for portfolio and samples and remember that each painter will have their speciality, some are better at Wood, some at painting Marble, its a personal thing You could Google a co. called Angel specialist painters in London they have some serious talent but I doubt the work would be cheap it all depends on how good you need the finish to be...you will have to remember that this will only ever be a painted finish and therefor prone to damage however much it gets varnished and given time it will age and yellow due to the oils in the paint and varnish.... I would however avoid anyone who claims to do "Paint effects" they are generally poorly trained, Trompe' loiel painters train at length, usually abroad, and need to be a painter of some repute to truely call themselves a Trompe l'oeil painter...

Good luck

Pheonix

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 16 Jul 2007, 19:52

Pheonix wrote:For what its worth, you really need a Trompe l'oeil painter somebody trained in the art of woodgraining "Faux Bois", they would need to match the original timber and probably blend the two together...

Exactly that. It's what the modernisers would have done in the '50s. The common word for this in the context of an inexpensive piano is "Scumbling". Your restorer should have informed you of this, and the fact that the grain effect would be lost when repolished. Either that or he should have left well alone if he was incapable. It'll cost you quite a bit extra to get this work done properly. Btw... I can assure you that not a single one of the Whelpdale/Woodchester directors was adept at practical French polishing, so I don't know what yarn you've been spun.

It's also worth mentioning that these days, it's common practice to 'reverse' the modernisation process and re-fit sympathetic period panelwork salvaged from scrapped pianos of the same period. It adds value to an ugly mod-job if done properly.

WinstonChurchill · Post by **WinstonChurchill** » 17 Jul 2007, 06:54

Do you suppose he's still looking, four years on???

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 17 Jul 2007, 07:34

Good point!

Well spotted agent Churchill!!

Pheonix · Post by **Pheonix** » 17 Jul 2007, 18:40

Oh yes....How funny, I sincerely doubt it,

How that thread came up I have no idea, especially seeing as it is so old...never mind he will be getting loads of e-mail notifications and may stop by...alternatively someone else may find this useful...

Cheers

Pheonix

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 18 Jul 2007, 07:23

The thread was probably bumped to the top by one of the legion of spammers touting their Russky p o r n sites...........

Tom Tuner · Post by **Tom Tuner** » 18 Jul 2007, 19:40

With a rubber graining comb and a goose feather you can learn to do your own fake graining with some practice. It's not that hard.

Tom Tuner

Pheonix · Post by **Pheonix** » 18 Jul 2007, 20:53

Yes Tom is right up to a point, you can grain with a rubber graining comb though a feather is generally and more usually used for marble. The downside using a comb is that you get very little depth in the graining, it can appear very flat and two dimensional. As for true trompe'loeil graining, well its built up over several layers, undergraining, usually flogged, over graining handpainted either with spalters or pencil grainers, depending on the cut of grain you hope to show, then the moiree or satin shimmer found in the surface grain. All of this is done when each layer is dried and varnished to protect each layer of work. The lower levels can be worked in acrylics, but the upper layers really require to be worked in oil and oil glaze to allow time for the grain or moiree to be developed by the painter...I would say it is not a job for the faint hearted and more than a modicum of art skills...For what its worth I trained as a trompe l'eoil painter, 9 long hard years an apprentice in Italy and France...sure we took it to the highest levels but just mixing the glazes and wealding the brushes can be daunting to the uninitiated..not to mention it can get very messy if you are the untidy type...

Get a book, have a go...you maybe a natural and enjoy it, it can be very satisfying, but remember you have select the right base colour, you will have to mix your own colours to match the rest of the Pianos grain, and make sure you make enough of each glaze...you REALLY dont want to run out halfway round...I know I have had it happen, it only happens once I can assure you.

I doubt the OP is even reading this actually as this was posted a very long time ago but if they are...this may help..

Cheers

Pheonix

Tom Tuner · Post by **Tom Tuner** » 20 Jul 2007, 17:00

I've mostly used the feather to simulate rosewood on melodeon legs and pedal lyres. These were not artistic masterpieces to start with, so my efforts did not look too badly by comparison.

Tom Tuner

Pheonix · Post by **Pheonix** » 20 Jul 2007, 17:58

Thats interesting Tom, I have never used feathers in graining only ever brushes...in truth the techniques vary all over the place. Rosewood is I think one of the prettier woods to grain in, my favourite grain to paint was feathered mahogany sometimes called flame or crotch mahogany, often used on pianos to great effect. I think its a dreadful shame that almost no one wants to be trained anymore, the art is dying, my last apprentice left to go and work in computer aided design, he didn't really have the passion which was a shame...

Oh well time to move on, I've been painting and ornamenting for nearly 30 years and I have just about done my stint...I may do a few small pieces for private clients and designers but my painting days are coming to an end...

I am always interested to hear about different techniques used though, my interest will always be in this very noble art.

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 20 Jul 2007, 18:00

With a rubber graining comb and a goose feather, you could start up your own p o r n site...

Pheonix · Post by **Pheonix** » 20 Jul 2007, 19:23

Porn site... pay per view...I've finally made it

I didn't see that coming

sorry if this has got a little off topic folks.

Just a bit of painter talk...not overly exciting unless you like tickling things with a dirty great brush (OOOOH errr MISSUS)

Like the Smart Car Gill, I've always fancied one but I'm a bit too tall...I also liked the old Citreon 2cv dolly, now they were fun...

Cheers

Pheonix

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 21 Jul 2007, 16:49

You ever sat in a smart car, Phoenix? They're as big inside as a Merc, and my 6'2" mate is quite comfy in it. Bumps are a little hard, thought, with the short wheelbase; concussion is avoided because of the soft top...