Metallic sound when note played loud

[Mendelssohn]

I have a 100 year old Mendelssohn upright which has been completely restored. It has almost bedded in but I am left with an A (880Hz) that produces a metallic ring to the sound when played above 60% volume. The person who did the restoration and I have just spent several hours looking for a reason and a cure to no effect.

Any sensible suggestions would be gratefully received

[Gill the Piano]

Well, really the chap who did the restoration would be best placed to find the noise, and he's evidently found nothing. If he's an experienced bod, he'll probably have tried everything we could suggest.
Is that A after a break - in other words when you look inside, is there a lump of frame between the G# and the A? Or the A and the A#? If so, these notes can be a design nightmare to get them to blend smoothly.Has the piano been restrung? (not all restorations do stringing and action at the same time). If so, it may not have been at concert pitch before and is now, and has moved the pitch into the right frequency to cause the jingle.
Are you sure the noise is in the piano? If so, I have found panels not pushed fast in place can cause noises, as can the lock mechanism (which I have solved with a sliver of paper pushed into place). Are all the action bolts fastened tight? Have you checked each string of the trichord individually? Sometimes it's only one string of the three which can make an extraneous noise; the wire can be milled with a slightly oval profile which can make it sound false. If this is the case you could try changing the string.Also make sure all the strings of that note are tapped tightly down oto the bridges.
I presume you've cleared all pictures/metronomes/lights/pencils/ornaments off the top of the piano? Is there a picture frame nearby? The glass in pictures - and on one occasion, a lampshade - has caused me grief before. Is there something resting against the soundboard at the back of the piano? (It's a favourite place to store posters, trays, etc.)
As I said, I daresay the restorer has tried most of these, so it's really a long process of elimination. Good luck!
PS Was this sensible enough...?

[Barrie Heaton]

I have a 100 year old Mendelssohn upright which has been completely restored. It has almost bedded in but I am left with an A (880Hz) that produces a metallic ring to the sound when played above 60% volume. The person who did the restoration and I have just spent several hours looking for a reason and a cure to no effect.

Any sensible suggestions would be gratefully received

It’s a process of elimination Gill have mentions the string But first remove the hammer and the next one to the one that is causing the problem screw the unaffected hammer were the affected one was play it if the sound is still their you know it is not the hammer section but if it is gone then is the head broken needles is a common one or glue on the felt

Other common factors loos bridge pins Gill has told you to check each string next is it Pressure bar or agrafts ?


Barrie,

[Mendelssohn]

Gill and Barrie,

Both sensible and helpful responses. The web of the frame goes between the next note down and the problem that you refer to blend of sound is not apparent.

The piano was restrung and the restorer did conclude that the only thing left to do was to restring since he had tried everthing that you listed.

The only comment that I can't be sure about is whether it is only one of the three strings that causes the noise. Terry Lyons who did the resstoration is back in a couple of weeks so I will get him to clear that point.

William

[tripod]

Hi,

I was wondering if a solution was every found for this. I have just bought a Yamaha SU7 new about 1.5 months ago. It has had it's first tuning. Before and after the tuning I noticed a metallic buzz when I struck B below Middle C above 40% volume.

Very annoying!

Thanks,

Paul

[Openwood]

I've got a similar problem on a new C7. At first it was most noticeable on the B-natural above middle C. It's since become less pronounced on that note but there's still a definite 'edge' to it and the three notes above it. Two tuners who looked at it tried to convince me that it's a sympathetic vibration from something in the room but I am 100% certain that this isn't the case. The buzz is definitely from within the piano and nobody seems to be able to fix it - or, more irritatingly, to care very much about fixing it. The piano is used for solo recital work quite often and I cringe every time those notes are used - i.e. A LOT! Fortunately it's faint enough that only I and a few others who use the piano regularly have really noticed it but for the kind of money we shelled out for the bloody thing it would be nice not to have any added percussion thrown in

PS It's worth oiling your fallboard lock - my own piano was buzzing like a bee on smack a few weeks ago and it turned out the lock mechanism was the culprit. I've also noticed that the filament inside my music stand light vibrates in sympathy with the D-naturals below middle C. God, I used to get excited about changing the world and now listen to me...

[Barrie Heaton]

I am 100% certain that this isn't the case. The buzz is definitely from within the piano and nobody seems to be able to fix it - or, more irritatingly, to care very much about fixing it.

I had a client who was 100% convinced that the B flat below Middle C was coming from the piano and I must admit it did sound that way However, it was the shiny light deflector fitting in the florescent light above the piano

When you get sympathetic vibrations around A and B look at electrical things in the room. Is the nasty sound on the octave below as well

On grand’s you can have bleeding on the capo scaling this is common on big grands in small rooms Steinways, Schimmel are very bad for this Yamahas do get it However, this is normly ones in the capo section . Schimmel uprights get it on the bigger uprights as there is no listing from the tuning pins to the pressure bar in the top treble It’s a irritating metallic sound but not on every note

Barrie,

[tripod]

When you get sympathetic vibrations around A and B look at electrical things in the room. Is the nasty sound on the octave below as well

Not noticably but then again if it were then the sympathetic vibration would probably be lower too?

The reason I am convinced it is in the piano is that when I lift the lid it gets worse. Now I suppose lifting the lid could allow the sound waves to have more effect on whatever might be outside the piano?

It sounds like it's in the action somewhere (either that B or very close to it).

I'll try and remove everything in the room I can find

[Barrie Heaton]

Not noticably but then again if it were then the sympathetic vibration would probably be lower too?

No the sympathetic sound tends to be an octave above in the bass its odd but that pianos

The reason I am convinced it is in the piano is that when I lift the lid it gets worse. Now I suppose lifting the lid could allow the sound waves to have more effect on whatever might be outside the piano?

OK the most common one for uprights is the pedal roods you could remove the bottom door and touch the rods wile someone plays the note


Did you point out the problem to the tuner - to you it may stand out like a soar thumb but to the tuner we look at the view, you like the sound of your piano so we tend to leave alone unless asked to change. We should advise if we think there is a problem but quite a lot don’t

Not that this is your problem but Yamahas hammers tend to compact after a year or so if played hard giving you some not so very nice overtones, this can be very prominent in the bass and the harmonics in the treble respond in kind this is fixed by voicing However, we then have the problem that quite a lot of tuners will not voice expensive pianos or cheep ones

Barrie,

[Gill the Piano]

If there are loose pin hinges on the lid, make sure all the pins are securely pushed home, or get someone to touch each one as you play the offending note to see if the buzz stops. That's caused me grief on more than one occasion!

[Openwood]

The metallic sound on our C7 travels with the piano when it's moved around and outside a large hall, which is why I'm sure the 'buzz' is not caused by anything outside the piano. It's not as bad as it used to be but I really want the thing to be perfect

[Barrie Heaton]

The metallic sound on our C7 travels with the piano when it's moved around and outside a large hall, which is why I'm sure the 'buzz' is not caused by anything outside the piano. It's not as bad as it used to be but I really want the thing to be perfect

Now that sounds likes a hammer problem if the metallic sound is decreeing it souinds like hard spots in the nose of the hammer. Is there a notable decree when you use the shift pedal?


Barrie,

[Openwood]

Thank you for your suggestions. The piano is stuck behind an art exhibition for the next couple of days (long story) but when it's accessible again I'll get the tuner to have a look at the hammer.

Only two days to go until Norwegian National Day, folks - I do hope you all have your bunting ready!