Help! Running out of tuners!

Baz · Post by **Baz** » 02 Mar 2007, 22:41

Since I bought my piano new last year (Yamaha), I've had it tuned three times. I practice 20+ hours a week and it's now at the point where it could do with another. However, I'm running out of tuners... Here's why:

Tuner No1: Recommended by the dealer. Agreed to come on a particular day at a particular time. I booked a day off work. Tuner called half an hour before the appointment and cried off with an excuse. Total waste of my time. Strike 1.

Tuner No2: Youngish guy who did a great job. Prompt and professional. Reluctant to have a look at voicing, however. Plenty of 'oo's' and 'ah's' but no dice. Got a job with a dealer and moved away. Strike 2.

Tuner No3: Letters after his name. Tuned aforementioned piano no problem. Reluctant to have a look at the voicing. Pointed out at length what my piano would have been like had it been hand built. A bit patronising and condescending. Expensive, too. Seemed like he was doing me a favour, rather than me employing him to do a job. Strike 3.

Tuner No4: The dog's doodahs. A real professional. Been in the business a long time. Spent three hours on the piano, voicing and tuning. Voicing much improved, but could still do with some work. Called last week to arrange another appointment. Said he'd call me back. Still waiting... Strike 4.

Now, I've plied these guys with cups of tea etc, and I've left them undisturbed to do the job. In all cases, I've been generous enough to tip each of them. I appreciate their time and expertise and I told them so. But I'm just a simple guy, and I'm running out of names on Yell.com and the Piano Tuners Association website. I'm down to the one-liners in the phone book (I'm not rubbishing them. They may be fantastic, but it doesn't inspire much confidence).

Any ideas? Is my experience typical? All I want is for some guy who (a) is reliable and (b) is a professional who understands what I want from my piano. Is that too much to ask?

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 02 Mar 2007, 23:06

Baz wrote:Since I bought my piano new last year (Yamaha), I've had it tuned three times. I practice 20+ hours a week and it's now at the point where it could do with another. However, I'm running out of tuners... Here's why:

Tuner No1: Recommended by the dealer. Agreed to come on a particular day at a particular time. I booked a day off work. Tuner called half an hour before the appointment and cried off with an excuse.

"Recommended?"
If the dealer had been decent in the first place he'd have paid for an independent tuner to call to do the first tuning and followed up to ensure you were happy.

Was it a discount purchase perhaps? Maybe the piano is so badly set-up that there's simply not enough time in a tuning appointment to do what's necessary. Good tuners are busy and the best often don't have enough time to answer phone messages for days because they're out tuning pianos. I for one generally leave the house at 8.30am and don't get home until 8.30 in the evening, by which time there are usually up to 15 messages on the voicemail all of which which eventually get dealt with.

I suggest you gently talk to tuner no.4 and ask him again. Catch him on a mobile and speak to him in person rather than leave messages if you must.

Good tuners are busy. There. I've said it again.

If you've found one you like, stick with him.

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 03 Mar 2007, 11:54

PianoGuy wrote:

Good tuners are busy and the best often don't have enough time to answer phone messages for days because they're out tuning pianos. I for one generally leave the house at 8.30am and don't get home until 8.30 in the evening, by which time there are usually up to 15 messages on the voicemail all of which which eventually get dealt with.
.

That not strictly true I can think of a few guys who are very booked up and I would not trust them anywhere near a piano with a screwdriver. One guy in the Midlands who ended up in prison for his bad work, con tricks and he boasted he could work seven days a week he had that much work

Barrie

Barrie,

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 03 Mar 2007, 11:58

Barrie Heaton wrote:
That not strictly true I can think of a few guys who are very booked up and I would not trust them anywhere near a piano with a screwdriver. One guy in the Midlands who ended up in prison for his bad work, con tricks and he boasted he could work seven days a week he had that much work

Yes, I'm sure there are some rubbish tuners that are busy too, but I've never met a good one who was looking for work, and Baz did say that the main trouble was tracking this feller down, not the standard of his work!

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 03 Mar 2007, 13:49

I'm afraid Baz's experience is pretty similar to mine. It's not that the ones I've tried aren't up to the job - they've all left the pianos in better tuning shape than before they arrived, it's just that they don't seem that bothered about doing any more than running through the worst notes and sending me an invoice.

So far I've tried 5 tuners and I've had the wrong safety casters fitted to an upright, I've waited 7 months for a music tray to be replaced (still waiting), I've had tuning which is, let's say, less than consistent, and I've been told that a persistent problem with a piano is just one of those things and what-can-you-expect-from-a-big-piano.

I don't want or expect fawning servitude but it would be great if i could find someone who took my concerns seriously and wasn't satisfied until they'd sorted them out.

tuna · Post by **tuna** » 03 Mar 2007, 17:12

Hi Openwood,

What is the persistent problem with the piano you mention?

As far as the problem of finding a caring tuner goes, I know there are a lot of tuners out there with varying qualifications or none at all. I'm not sure what the tuners in the Channel Islands are like, or even who they are.

However, my Dad is an excellent tuner, not just according to me. He is not a resident of Guernsey, but often visits the Island. Maybe it could be arranged for him to tune the piano for you on one of these visits?

Baz · Post by **Baz** » 03 Mar 2007, 17:14

Thanks to Piano Guy and Barrie for their comments. But I'm with Openwood on this one! I do not buy the argument that the good techs are busy. I'm f'n busy, too!!!!

"I don't want or expect fawning servitude but it would be great if i could find someone who took my concerns seriously and wasn't satisfied until they'd sorted them out." Exactly. Fat chance.

Apart from PTA members (which even in my limited experience is NO guarantee of anything (meaning (a) understanding what I want and (b) either doing it or explaining why not) the ordinary punter (professional or amateur, decent piano or not) is at the mercy of a guy from the Yellow Pages who can turn up within a reasonable timescale. If there's only one tech who's half decent and he croaks, what the hell, then?

If I thought about it too much, I'd begin to think that in the absence of a decent tech in my area I'd be better off going back to a digital. So shoot me.

tuna · Post by **tuna** » 03 Mar 2007, 17:36

Baz..................Bang, bang.......you're dead!

jackg · Post by **jackg** » 03 Mar 2007, 20:11

Don't use Yellow pages then. Word of mouth is usually better. Teachers, schools or concert venues employ tuners

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 03 Mar 2007, 20:27

jackg wrote:Don't use Yellow pages then. Word of mouth is usually better. Teachers, schools or concert venues employ tuners

The perfect reply.

Baz · Post by **Baz** » 04 Mar 2007, 00:11

Tuna - How long did it take you to think that one up? But hey, you missed! Still, don't feel bad. Try and be positive. A thought crossed your mind. Must have been a long and lonely journey...

tuna · Post by **tuna** » 04 Mar 2007, 01:46

Baz, Will get you next time!

Which area do you live in anyway? Might know of a tuner myself you could try next time you are looking to get your piano tuned......

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 04 Mar 2007, 14:04

Openwood wrote:I'm afraid Baz's experience is pretty similar to mine. It's not that the ones I've tried aren't up to the job - they've all left the pianos in better tuning shape than before they arrived, it's just that they don't seem that bothered about doing any more than running through the worst notes and sending me an invoice.

Scenario
Tuner: time to tune your piano is every thing OK
Client Yes when can you come?
Tuner: on the what ever - thinking to him/her self good I should be able to slot in quite a few that day

Tuner arrives BTW we have this and this problem can you fix them -Tuner thinking sugar not going to get all this done and visit all the clients of the day

Have that a few time a week and you can get fed up of going home late

Openwood wrote: So far I've tried 5 tuners and I've had the wrong safety casters fitted to an upright, I've waited 7 months for a music tray to be replaced (still waiting), I've had tuning which is, let's say, less than consistent, and I've been told that a persistent problem with a piano is just one of those things and what-can-you-expect-from-a-big-piano.

The joys of tuning in schools

Primary
You would like to go in there when thee is no kids but you can’t as they now have after school programs so you have to put up with screaming Teachers and kids running all over the place. Then they wonder why we are not at are best tuning wise.

Secondary
Well I must admin I no longer do many, only the ones that I can get in at half term and then its not like it use to be as quite a lot have programs or the site supervisor don’t show up

Scenario: Tuning piano for concert in school hall - Teacher turns up with 40 + kids don’t worry you would disturbed them as she puts on the ghetto blaster, so you explain hopefully they will go away – but then the site supervisor turns up to put the chars out Hmmm

Thankfully not all schools are like that some of the Primary schools are very accommodating

Openwood wrote: I don't want or expect fawning servitude but it would be great if i could find someone who took my concerns seriously and wasn't satisfied until they'd sorted them out.

I try to work with teacher when I can but often you don’t get to speak they are running off at the end of the day or they are a temp and just don’t want to know

You probably try to work with your tuners, but a lot are getting very cynical with institutions as there is too much easy work out there remember "we tune pianos to make a profit" not all tuners will put themselves out. Llke they use to

Barrie,

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 04 Mar 2007, 15:48

Barry, I do understand the frustrations you must experience in the scenarios you mention but I can't see how that justifies the experiences I had with SOME tuners. I've also had some very positive experiences.

In my case we spent over a year fund-raising for a new piano, which is a memorial to a colleague who died suddenly. It is the focal point of our music-making, it's used for solo and accompanying work up to A-Level and it matters to me personally that it should be in good working order.

Incidentally any teacher who brings a class in whilst you're tuning is behaving like an idiot.

Of course tuners are there to make a profit, and that's actually my point. If tuner A comes along and does a rushed job so he can get onto the next client and tuner B takes the trouble to arrange a follow-up visit to address any problems that are going to take longer than expected, who am I going to give my money to next time and who am I going to recommend to the other pianists and institutions who ask me for someone on whom they can rely? It's a no-brainer.

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 04 Mar 2007, 16:50

I've been tuning in a school hall when a teacher (aged about twelve) teetered in on high heels herding about 40 kids (aged about ten). I cleared my throat politely and she simpered at me, and said "Listen up (AAARGH!), there's a lady here (oo, I'm a lady!) tuning the piano..." here I smiled gratefully, "...so we're going to have to sing EXTRA loud!".

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 04 Mar 2007, 17:51

Openwood wrote:Barry, I do understand the frustrations you must experience in the scenarios you mention but I can't see how that justifies the experiences I had with SOME tuners. I've also had some very positive experiences.

In my case we spent over a year fund-raising for a new piano, which is a memorial to a colleague who died suddenly. It is the focal point of our music-making, it's used for solo and accompanying work up to A-Level and it matters to me personally that it should be in good working order.

All I can say is communicate with the tuner, for instance the missing Music Desk it has to come from Germany, if they have ordered it from Yamaha UK, Yamaha UK have to order it from Yamaha Europe and that lot are anything but efficient. Which is crazy as the Desks are made in the UK shipped to Germany as spears and shipped back to the UK

Openwood wrote: Incidentally any teacher who brings a class in whilst you're tuning is behaving like an idiot.

Well there are a lot "idiots" teaching our kids as this is a regular thing, in some schools some of it I put down to internal politics, but if the school has a hall diary then you can get god to intervene and she because they normally are a she, puts the teacher in their place till next time

Barrie,

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 04 Mar 2007, 23:18

Barrie and Gill - there's no excuse for the behaviour of the teachers in the episodes you describe. I guess you're going to come up against small-minded burks in any profession and teaching is no exception.

Next time that happens, perhaps you could write to the headteacher explaining that sadly you were prevented from finishing your 'piano tuning and safety check' as you were interrupted by a member of her staff and therefore the school will need to pay for a second visit to complete the job. After all, you didn't get a chance to check the stability of the casters and some of those strings looked like they could snap any minute - and those are clearly Health & Safety issues which the school has a duty to address.

The combination of having to shell-out extra cash and the magic words 'Health & Safety' ought to guarantee a nice empty room for your future visits....

Nyiregyhazi · Post by **Nyiregyhazi** » 07 Mar 2007, 01:15

Baz wrote:Tuner No4: The dog's doodahs. A real professional. Been in the business a long time. Spent three hours on the piano, voicing and tuning. Voicing much improved, but could still do with some work. Called last week to arrange another appointment. Said he'd call me back. Still waiting... Strike 4.

Um, maybe you could call HIM back? What's going to happen with the next one? You'll strike him off because you didn't like the colour of his trousers?

Andrew

alan forman · Post by **alan forman** » 07 Mar 2007, 22:07

I really identify with those comments about school piano tuning. How many times do I get "How long will you be?"
when I`ve just unpacked my tools ? Now, I exaggerate to get peace.

BUT, too many have bought keyboards to replace pianos,
funny how money can be found for that, NOT a new (or even re-con) piano which will have longevity !!!!

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 08 Mar 2007, 00:11

How depressing to hear that some schools are so unfriendly towards tuners. I wonder why they ask you to come during term time anyway? Doesn't it make more sense to do it during the school holidays when just the caretakers are in? I get my tuner to come the week before the autumn term begins and then again the week before the spring term starts.

If they do insist on tuning during the school day the onus is clearly on them to keep the room free. Complain to the school's management if you get hassle - after all they're paying for your time. And finally folks, if they can't even organise a tuning visit for God's sake don't send your kids there!

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 08 Mar 2007, 19:41

As for buying keyboards instead of pianos, hands up those tuners who have been told that 'new pianos are too expensive, we're getting some keyboards instead'. And hands up those tuners who have gone into the same music department a year or so later to see a pile of broken/knackered/useless keyboards, (about 2 years old) the rough monetary equivalent of a decent upright (life expectancy 30 years plus)!!

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 08 Mar 2007, 20:15

Openwood wrote:How depressing to hear that some schools are so unfriendly towards tuners. I wonder why they ask you to come during term time anyway? Doesn't it make more sense to do it during the school holidays when just the caretakers are in? I get my tuner to come the week before the autumn term begins and then again the week before the spring term starts.

Not possible with most primary schools as they have to get the site supervisor in and that cost extra money, which they don’t have. With primary schools you deal with God (God being the school sec) not the person who is responsible for music.

Openwood wrote: If they do insist on tuning during the school day the onus is clearly on them to keep the room free.
!

LOL O’my god your school must be a private school or small - most big secondary schools are more booked up out of school time than they are in school time ( and they are normally the ones that can afford to have pianos tuned ). The way it normally works you do the Hall pianos and practise room if they have any, then at 3.30 you do the class rooms and have to put up with the cleaners of course the teacher who is responsible for music has log gone so any problems there is no one there to tell

Openwood wrote: Complain to the school's management if you get hassle - after all they're paying for your time.

Why bother we just don’t go back

Don’t get me wrong there are some very nice music teachers out there who work with you. its the PE and Drama teachers who seem to do there best to upset you over access to the hall

I did have some fun with a PE teacher a few weeks ago it was raining and she told me that I would have to wait till they have finished. I said fine I don’t mind I pointed out that I charge £75.00 per hour waiting time and double time after 5 pm I will inform the school sec who will take it out of your budget as you are making me wait and I am booked in the Hall diary. The kids got wet that day, I did know that the school sec did not like the PE teacher the Joy of school politics

BTW I don’t charge £75.00 but she did not know that

Barrie,

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 08 Mar 2007, 20:21

Gill the Piano wrote:As for buying keyboards instead of pianos, hands up those tuners who have been told that 'new pianos are too expensive, we're getting some keyboards instead'. And hands up those tuners who have gone into the same music department a year or so later to see a pile of broken/knackered/useless keyboards, (about 2 years old) the rough monetary equivalent of a decent upright (life expectancy 30 years plus)!!

Yip

One of my school PX 2 1960 K10 knights for a Clav a few years ago and the new Teacher who hates keyboards wants a real piano but the school can’t afford one. Bin down that road a few times

Barrie,

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 09 Mar 2007, 16:53

Depends what you want your school piano to do and how much space you have. If the money is available I would always have an acoustic piano in a music room but sometimes a Clavinova or stage piano can prove to be a good solution.

For example, we have a Yam C7 in our main hall and it's brilliant but it's at floor level and over 7ft long, so for our drama production last year it was better for me to bring up an electric stage piano; it meant the band could be onstage and it provided a range of voices which were called for in the orchestral score.

The stage piano can also be set up for assemblies in the gymnasium when the hall is out of action and it can be blasted out of the mother of all PA systems when a ridiculously big sound is needed.

The rest of the time it is in a tiny room which could never house an acoustic piano but with the stage piano it becomes another much needed space where A-Level students can work on harmony, composition etc.

I'm the acoustic piano's number one fan, believe me, but I can also understand why some teachers go down the electronic route in certain circumstances.

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 09 Mar 2007, 16:59

Having said what I just did in my last message, I ought to add that you'd have to out of your tiny mind (or poorly funded of course) to have a clavinova as your ONLY piano in a school - and I do know plenty of schools where that is the case - not good. It's hard to imagine that a reasonably well run music department couldn't, over the course of a year or so, raise enough money to get a B1 or something like it through concerts, making a CD or whatever.

God, don't I go on.....

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 09 Mar 2007, 20:19

But a Clavinova takes the same floorspace (or less!!) as a real piano!!! This is what drives me insane(r!)...that they pay so much for a lump of plastic that lasts a tenth of the time that a proper piano does...

And on my poxy council tax, too....

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 09 Mar 2007, 20:55

Gill the Piano wrote:But a Clavinova takes the same floorspace (or less!!) as a real piano!!! This is what drives me insane(r!)...that they pay so much for a lump of plastic that lasts a tenth of the time that a proper piano does... And on my poxy council tax, too....

I can understand schools having a Clav if only for the MIDI and in Primary they normally don’t have a music room but quite a few do now have computer rooms and it is much easer to drag a clave in there than a piano. As some times they do music on the computers. What gets me is when the school dumps all the real pianos and very goods ones

Barrie,

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 09 Mar 2007, 23:16

I think we can all agree that there is no substitute for a good quality, well-maintained acoustic piano! At this point we should all laugh together, like they used to do at the end of StarTrek.

Incidentally I played an 'Eastern Bloc period' Bluthner grand this evening. To win tonight's TV quiz all you have to do is phone in and say whether it was:

a) the finest piano I have ever played
b) the worst piano I have ever payed.

I've already chosen the winner but please call in anyway because I'll be charging your calls at premium rate.

Cheers now.

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