John Spencer & Co.

[kaywallace]

Hello, We have a piano with serial number 53635, upright, John Spencer Piano. It has candle holders and stand attached above the keyboard for holding music pages. We live in Auckland New Zealand and would like to know the age and approximate price of the piano. It is in very good condition although needs a good tune. Thanks, Kay

[Bill Kibby]

You've no idea how tuners shudder when you say "needs a good tune", it isn't always that simple, or how historians shudder when you mention the V word: no-one can give you a valuation without on-the-spot inspection. See the Valuation link at pianogen.org

The number suggests 1909.

[Sam Stevenson]

Hi Bill,

I have a John Spencer & Co upright which, based on the serial number, you identified as being circa 1921.

My daughter has just started piano lessons, and has been told that pianos have 88 keys. I told her to go and count our piano keys, assuming there was 88, but was surprised to learn there is only 85 (I checked, too). Do you know why this is the case - I'm rather curious.

Cheers,
Sam

[Bill Kibby]

85 notes (7 octaves) is the most common range in antiue pianos, and a century ago, 88 notes was unusual. Even in modern times, it is by no means a universal standard to have 88 notes, and there are many fairly modern pianos around with 7 octaves, or 6 octaves, or even ocaasionally 5 octaves, which is all the "classical" composers had to write on - 61 notes.

[eddieallen]

Hello Bill,

I have recently discovered this forum and wondered if it will answer a couple of questions for me. To the point. My Nan past away a couple of years ago and being from a rather large family we distributed all her material belongings to members of the family who needed them. Any how to cut a long story short - she owned a John Spencer piano - serial 2C 34041 which she bought in her thirties (second hand) - noone in my family wanted this piano and my cousin was about to smash it up (seriously - not sure why he did not want to sell it) a week before I heard it was still available after all these years - anyhow - my son has started piano lessons and I managed to obtain this piano - the problem is - it has not been tuned for years. I think it needs slight restoration work as a couple of the key connectors are frail and have snapped (thin wiring that pull hammers back) what I wanted to know was firstly the age of the piano? Are the expensive to tune? Is there anypoint in trying to restore it i.e. will it cost more that purchasing a new piano......I am keen to keep this in the family but I probably cannot afford to restore it and therefore may be wasting my time and not providing my son with the best possible keyboard experience in terms of tune. It would be good to know a little more about the piano's history.

[Bill Kibby]

The published dates of their numbers would suggest 1903, but my own estimates would put it nearer 1900. Tuning usually costs around forty to fifty pounds in the UK, but prices vary. As far as restoration, it can run into hundreds or thousands, it depends what needs doing, and you need an estimate from someone on the spot. I can do it if you are in East Anglia. The biggest question is whether it is capable of being tuned. I can also help you with general history, but no archives are available to look up ondovodual Spencer pianos. See the Archives link at pianogen.org

[eddieallen]

Thank you Bill for your prompt answer. Unfortunately I live in Essex a little further down from your good self. So the piano is a hundred years old that makes sense...the overall condition of the piano is immaculate in terms of casing, pedals, keys etc etc - as for the mechanics - I would not have a clue - are you suggesting get someone to have a look inside and quote a restoration job before I even consider getting it tuned....do you know of anyone in this vicinity who I could call and trust....Also I have found another serial number on the wooden bit above the hammers this states John Spencer 27673 patent - is this different to the other serial number on the casing - does this mean it has been modified at some point....

Thanks again for you prompt answer

Regards

Eddie

[Bill Kibby]

I do occasionally go to Essex, I used to live there, so email me. 2C would be the model number, and the serial number is usually directly under that. As to varying numbers, have a look at the Numbers link at pianogen.org

[PianoGuy]

T..Also I have found another serial number on the wooden bit above the hammers this states John Spencer 27673 patent - is this different to the other serial number on the casing - does this mean it has been modified at some point....

I'm assuming this patent number is on a little metal bracket which secures the action into the piano. This being the case, it's an overdamper action and thus not worth restoration as an instrument. Whether it's worth restoration as an item of sentimentality is up to you, but it'll be a poor piano to learn on.

It hasn't been modified. This bracket is a standard fitment to hundreds of old Spencer overdampers.

[Bill Kibby]

So we should scrap every overdamper piano in the world? I don't think so! I have just tuned one which has been giving a family pleasure for over 70 years, and it is not dead yet. By the same argument, should we scrap every car that doesn't conform to new standards? Or every sax that isn't Boehm System? Sounds like the American way.

[rayneal]

I have just been given a John Spencer upright piano serial number 69297. Can anyone give me an idea of its age.
Also I am currently cleaning it and attempting to do some repairs prior to getting it properly tuned. Does anyone know where I can get a replacement wippen and jack (as one is broken completely), jack springs and bridle straps.
Thanks

[Bill Kibby]

The number suggests 1919. No parts are made for these now, and there are so many different types that most action repairers find it impractical to keep spares from scrap pianos. There may be specialist part makers, but I don't know of any, and they would be expensive, so the last resort is to borrow a part from one of the end notes, which are rarely played.