Modern versus old Piano

[ajsaddacs]

Hello,
My wife and I are looking for a piano. My wife is pretty much decided on either a new Kawai K3 (she's been offered a good deal £3200 new ) or a used U1 (Hopefully £2500!).

I notice that it is possible to buy a reconditioned Bechstein for around £3600. There is one in The Piano Workshop. It has a 5year guarantee.

I would be grateful for your thoughts on a fully reconditioned 80-100 year old Bechstein versus a modern Kawai/Yamaha.

Particularly, how long should it last with normal domestic use ?
Will we likely have to pay significantly to keep it maintained ?
ny other thoughts ?

Yours sincerely

ajs

[PianoGuy]

I notice that it is possible to buy a reconditioned Bechstein for around £3600. There is one in The Piano Workshop. It has a 5year guarantee.

I would be grateful for your thoughts on a fully reconditioned 80-100 year old Bechstein versus a modern Kawai/Yamaha.

Particularly, how long should it last with normal domestic use ?
Will we likely have to pay significantly to keep it maintained ?
ny other thoughts ?

Don't be seduced by it.

I doubt that it's 'fully reconditioned' at that price. To do the job thoroughly, those old Bechies always need a new plank because the design of the wrestplank usually results in loose pins around the break in overstringing, and that kind of money wouldn't pay for that depth of restoration.

No competition between a tarted up (for it is so) old Bechstein and a new U1/K3. 100 years of development will see to that.

The only safe way to buy one of these is to go to a specialist restorer and buy one that's had a new wrestplank which will go some way to making it central-heating proof, and that means a top restorer. He will want at least 7k for a fully restored example of that ilk. Even a warranty won't help you on an old Bechstein if it develops plank problems in a few years.

K3

U1

Your choice!

[Barrie Heaton]

I would disagree with Pianoguy changing a wrest plank is not cost effective on an upright. However, there are quite a few virgin Model 8 -9s out there which can be restrung coming up 2 sizes of wrest pin make a nice firm pin, but I would not go above a 3/0 pin as you would have problems at the bass brake with standard tuning tools.

One factor on having an older restored piano is the exotic veneers you can get on some of theses old pianos they are just not available on new ones. They are giving a 5 year guarantee. which is the same as a new piano

Having said the above, there is one big factor the soundboard in 25 years time one would hope that the new piano would have lots of life in the soundboard but will the old one


Barrie,

[ajsaddacs]

I received this reply from the piano restorer who ells Bechsteins starting from around £3000 .

"
Your information from the web is interesting but misguided.I have been restoring for 28 years and if a piano is well restored the life will be another 50 to 60 years.

We always replace the wrestpins and the block if in good condition will hold a tuning as good or better than a new piano.All this about replacing planks is fine but no one would be able to afford the piano.and in most cases it is not needed.
"

So looks like I don't have to worry about the soundboard or anything else
and if I prefer the touch and tone of a Restored 80-100yr old Bechstein to a 20yr old Yamaha U1 then I should just go with the Bechstein.

Ajsaddacs

[PianoGuy]

Your information from the web is interesting but misguided.I have been restoring for 28 years and if a piano is well restored the life will be another 50 to 60 years.

We always replace the wrestpins and the block if in good condition will hold a tuning as good or better than a new piano.All this about replacing planks is fine but no one would be able to afford the piano.and in most cases it is not needed.

I realise that I write a lot of potentially inflammatory stuff in these pages, but it's people like me who have to visit ancient old pianos for which people like you have paid good money. I'm not saying "don't go for it" but err on the side of caution. There are a lot of good restorers out there, but many more are sheisters.

The model IV Bechstein and some of the other Roman numeral models are notorious for plank problems. Some later Bechsteins have "open planks" or "window frames", where the condition can sometimes be more easily verified by eye, but the models with covered planks and a very close pin arrangement over the break can prove very flaky.

If you can't see the plank and it hasn't been changed expect the worst. Get an independent tuner to tune it (not just inspect it) and let him or her assess the feel of the plank. Oversized pins above a certain diameter are horrible in any case, offer poorer 'feel' for the tuner, less accuracy and are nasty to tune. Conventional tuning levers don't always fit either.

A carefully restored early Bechstein can be a delight, but I would be wary of any restorer who tells you that restoration without a plank replacement is safe for the next 60 years. Granted, there are pianos still around where plank replacement is not necessary, but these tend to be later models dating from the late '20s and '30s. Turn of the century examples are very very risky indeed.

I think your restorer is living in the past. 28 years ago, the pianos considered worthy of restoration dated from the late 1800s to the 1930s. Since piano output was disrupted severely in the '40s, and '50s instruments are considered to be poorer than these early ones were when they were new, the pianos that some restorers consider worthy of restoration today are STILL the ones from the early part of the century, but consider that as well as being nearly 30 years older, many have already been restored with oversized wrestpins once before.

I would go for the K3. Safe and well designed, and it will last 50-60 years.

[ajsaddacs]

Firstly, Thank you to both of you for your comments.
Given what you say, perhaps it is unlikely that we will be able to afford a good bechstein for £3000.

My wife is not keen to buy a Bechstein (because she is cautious and prefers the look of the newer pianos) and she is the piano player.

I like the look of the older pianos and I have heard that the older pianos have a melower tone and this appeals to me.

Local tuner can source a Bechstein for £200 which can then be restored thro' local reputable piano dealer for further £2000 - professionally restored by sending to Poland. ( What should they do for good restoration?)

My wife tried a new K3 and a used U1, compared both and liked both.
I think she thought the used U1 was bright and the K3 melower, but then one was new and the other used. Anyway she has agreed to play a used U1 with local dealer - 3 million or 4 million series.

I would go for the K3. Safe and well designed, and it will last 50-60 years.

K3 in preference to a used U1 (70s/80s) ?

sincerely
ajsaddacs

[PianoGuy]

Local tuner can source a Bechstein for £200 which can then be restored thro' local reputable piano dealer for further £2000 - professionally restored by sending to Poland. ( What should they do for good restoration?)

For goodness sake, don't send a piano for restoration to Poland. It'll come back looking great, but it'll need a week from a real technician to sort it out afterwards. The Polish haven't designed nor built a decent piano in their entire history, and saddled the world with crap like the late unlamented Legnica and Calisia, so there's no reason to think they can restore a once-excellent piano to its former glory. Worryingly it's the towns of Legnica and Calisz where the unwitting public (and trade who should know better) now send pianos to be restored, no doubt by former employees of the factories which built the previously mentioned rubbish.

The trouble with us Brits is that we all like something done on the cheap.

K3 in preference to a used U1 (70s/80s) ?

sincerely
ajsaddacs

Depends entirely on the U1 in question.

[ajsaddacs]

Depends entirely on the U1 in question

What used U1 for £2500 would you buy before a new K3 ?

Our local piano dealer has agreed to source a used U1 4million series for my wife for £2500 which includes 5yr guarantee. She had to talk him down to this price. Our dealer is buying a 3milllion series piano for the shop and my wife is to go in when ready and play it - if she likes this one then perhaps she can buy it. If she dosen't like the 3M one then the dealer will buy in a 4M series piano.

The 3M series piano may sound and look good and the hammers may look in good condition, and the keys when no longer pressed are properly dampened, but other than that I and my wife won't know if there is something wrong with it. We have just the word of the dealer - but I don't know whether we can trust the dealer to provide us with a really good condition U1 ?

Alastair

[PianoGuy]

Our local piano dealer has agreed to source a used U1 4million series for my wife for £2500 which includes 5yr guarantee. She had to talk him down to this price.

Well talked. If he's a bona fide VAT paying dealer then it's a good price for a 4M. If he's a small-time non VAT contributing dealer, then knock him down a bit more.

The 3M series piano may sound and look good and the hammers may look in good condition, and the keys when no longer pressed are properly dampened, but other than that I and my wife won't know if there is something wrong with it. We have just the word of the dealer - but I don't know whether we can trust the dealer to provide us with a really good condition U1 ?

At some point you have to trust someone.

Get an independent tuner to look at it.

A good 4mil U1 will be very very tidy indeed. Look for condition of hammers, playability, tone and sustain in all areas and look inside for obvious signs of wear and reject if there's rust on the strings or tuning pins indicating it's been in a humid climate.