Upsetting the neighbours

iwf · Post by **iwf** » 25 Oct 2006, 23:40

Hope someone up here can help.

We've just a brand spanking K2, but have been told by the neighbours living below us NOT to play it when they're in the house!

some background

We recently moved into the top flat of a comverted 2 storey house. One of the things that attracted us was the fact that the neighbours had had sound insultation installed. However even without a piano they complained about hearing us move around.

anyhow in preparation for the arrival of the piano I took up the floors installed proper impact soundproofing then relayed the floor carpet etc.

feeling very clever with our selves we ordered the K2 ( with anytime silent function for the evenings) and it arrived yesterday. After playing a bit during the day, the real pianist arrived home at 6:30 and played for an hour.

today we received an email from our neighbours saying they could hear every note played and we should desist immediately or the council would be called!

We consider ourselves reasonable people. We had told them we wouldn't playing late in the evening (not after

nor early in the morning. We're actually not in much anyhow but hoped to be able to play a bit at weekends during the day.

Having done a little more research we can do some more soundproofing, but I suspect will never be able completely kill the sound.

so to my question.

Anyone any experience of these type of issues. Is there not, for instance, a defence of reasonableness against any action they might take.

thanks for any help.

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 26 Oct 2006, 00:49

The first thing you need to do before your neighbours get to upset is ask them if you can come and listen, get your partner to play – and stand in the room below the piano then ask your self if you were living under that would you like it - then ask them to put on the TV put the volume at a reasonable level, if you can still hear the piano then you will have problems with the LA if you can’t then you will be OK to a point that the test some LA use but then you have other factors like time and young children

There is no actual decibel guideline its all down to the officer who visits what they think and manly it’s the bass in HiFis that get them going

Sadly they can make your life miserable I have been down that road they can come in 2 types – report every little noise or type 2 they buy the biggest HiFi on the planet and blow you away I had them both next door the second are the worst as they can be unpredictable

You can work to a rota that some times can work out well

A defence of reasonableness against any action they might take.

Yes there is if they turn out to be reporting every little noise and send note and emails keep a record, that can be determined as harassment and the environmental services are aware that some folk use them in a vindictive way

Barrie,

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 26 Oct 2006, 07:14

Bummer!

They sound totally unreasonable. It maybe that you caught them in a bad mood, or that the piano playing isn't that loud, but is like Chinese water torture to them. I used to have a neighbour who lived upstairs who complained about the loo being flushed after 9pm. Some people are just nutters. The trouble with house/flat conversions is that sound transmission issues aren't designed in from the start. Insulation between joists only helps very slightly, and remember that sound travels more efficiently through solid materials.

You may improve matters by taking up the floorboards, laying an insulation layer on top of the joists, then re-laying a solid chipboard floor on top of that, leaving a small gap all round so that the floor does not contact the walls or joists at all. You could probably create a 'floating' section thus just under the piano and leave the remaining floor intact.

Good luck.

iwf · Post by **iwf** » 26 Oct 2006, 15:40

thanks guys for the replies.

I spoke to several environment health people today from several London boroughs and they all agreed the key was what is reasonable and what is excessive. not only that but they though we were being very reasonable!

PianoMan, your suggestions for floor insulation was exactly what I did

I also posted a question on the Neighbours from hell website and found considerable support there.

buoyed up from these replies and my further investigation I feel ready to tackle these bothersome people.

thanks again

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 26 Oct 2006, 16:24

A noise is a sound for which you have no control over the off-switch! You seem to have been more than reasonable in the precautions you took, and as long as you don't play at antisocial hours (which you evidently don't) they have no reasonable (and that's the key word) grounds for complaint. Get a U3 instead; then they might see that the K2 isn't as bad as they thought. Rachmaninov, anyone...?

PianoFifty · Post by **PianoFifty** » 27 Oct 2006, 13:32

You have my heartfelt sympathy! Years ago, in the 70's, I lived next door to a man who complained about the noise when I boiled my kettle - I had a Fender Rhodes 73 electric piano, which I played through headphones via an amplifier. No extraneous noise whatsoever, but he complained about the vibration of the keys hitting the keybed. This sounds like the problem you may have - regardless of your musical consideration in keeping the volume down, they can probably hear the noise from the keys and its driving them mad.

You seem to have had some good advice - isolate the piano as much as possible, agree practice times etc etc, but I fear you will have a job to keep them happy. You don't say what kind of relationship you have with these neighbours, but I get the impression it isn't good. Maybe try talking to them and getting them interested in the piano - invite them in and play to them maybe. Sounds like the LA will support you though if you are making a big effort to be reasonable. I wish you good luck.