Cheapest Yamaha Silent piano Yet

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 31 Mar 2006, 18:33

The New Yamaha B1-PE Silent Piano in Black Polyester
has just been lunched with a silent version RRP 2,899.00 and is being discounted down to 2,299.00 that is an amassing price.

The none silent version is RRR 1,899.00 and that is being discounted down to. 1,499.00 so far

Is this War Yamaha V the rest of the world

Barrie

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 01 Apr 2006, 12:42

Possibly one where they are shooting thenselves repeatedly in the foot.

These pianos are too cheap at rrp, and the sillyboys' discount price will ensure that neither they nor Yamaha will be making any money. They're made in Indonesia, so the price advantage of being made in China is being lost too. Just checked spec in my schoolboy German, and there's no mention of MIDI in the brochure. Surely this is one reason that people buy Silent pianos, so if this is an omission of the actual piano not a dodgy German brochure, they're not such good value after all.

Kawai's new range is for the first time in history better than Yamaha's. They're cheaper at trade price, rrp is very similar and by and large, Kawai dealers don't discount like kamikase lemmings escaping a burning tower block. It pains me to think about being disloyal to my former favourites, but there you go....

PG... Reporting on the Frankfurt Experience for UK Piano Forums...

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 23 Sep 2006, 20:24

SHOCK!!:shock:

The b1 and b2 Silent pianos are not equipped with MIDI of any description!

What a cheapskate load of crap they are then. The most useful feature of a Silent is not the digital piano noise through the headphones, but the fact that it can be used to operate other MIDI devices and also be used as a composition aid with Cakewalk, Cubase and the like. Yamaha deserve to lose sales over this, and I'm sure they will. It would have cost about a fiver per unit to build into the design, so if they've cut corners here, where else have they cheapened it?

I'm putting the Kawai Anytime (silent equivalent) on my list of recommendations from now on.

Yamaha should be ashamed of themselves.

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 23 Sep 2006, 21:32

PianoGuy wrote:SHOCK!!:shock:

The b1 and b2 Silent pianos are not equipped with MIDI of any description!

All for the sake of a 20p plug MIDI out is there as the thing is making a signal for the silent bit, I can understand not having the MIDI in as that is more complex but they have the units I place for all the other models why take a step back

Its what most of the kids want for composing for school work

Quite a few dealers are dropping yam as there is no profit in the lower end pianos. Which is not good for Yam, when dealers drop a product then normally rubbish it after and if you get a lot doing that it soon sticks.

I also heard the other day when Yamaha UK move to Holland the UK production will stop then main plant will close and Kembles may have to move production to Indonesia. Now that will be sad

Barrie,

Barrie,

sussexpianos · Post by **sussexpianos** » 25 Sep 2006, 09:16

I have always been very pro Kawai, and their current line up is simple and works well. Its a pitty they dropped the KX which was cheap and a good seller and produced to compete against cheaper Yams. Kawai are very loyal to their dealers and do their best to keep, ( as PG put it) silly boys discounting at them on the internet. I know a few Yam dealers which complain about the huge discounts offered by "silly boys", when you work it out, the dealer is only getting around 5%, this is no where near enough with the huge overheads. In the long run, Yamaha will suffer because many dealers will drop them and people will not have the chance to try the pianos without travelling many miles and not having the back up of a local dealer who could sort out problems quickly.
Somepeople will say that competition is good, it is for the consumer but not for specialized businesses in a decreasing market. Look at Sounds Musical!! A huge internet discounter which anoyed many many dealers, went bust leaving many people out of pocket, no back up, and hit the music trade hard during its trading ( making a few businesses to close), who's the winner now? the consumers who payed a little more from their local business and its still there, offering great service and back up!
Sorry, had to get that off my chest!
Midi is important, seems a bit silly to leave it out!

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 25 Sep 2006, 10:22

Absolutely.

On all counts.

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 25 Sep 2006, 17:23

sussexpianos wrote: Look at Sounds Musical!! A huge internet discounter which anoyed many many dealers, went bust leaving many people out of pocket, no back up, and hit the music trade hard during its trading ( making a few businesses to close), who's the winner now? the consumers who payed a little more from their local business and its still there, offering great service and back up!
Sorry, had to get that off my chest!
Midi is important, seems a bit silly to leave it out!

They are back trading or was

Barrie,

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 25 Sep 2006, 23:48

sussexpianos wrote:I have always been very pro Kawai, and their current line up is simple and works well. Its a pitty they dropped the KX which was cheap and a good seller and produced to compete against cheaper Yams.

I have always regarded them as a second-rate alternative to Yamaha- that is until the latest range of pianos. I think the RX series of grands is superb, the Shigeru simply amazing (not that there are many around!) and the K series uprights a bit soulless compared to Yamaha, but very good nonetheless. I have noticed a few build problems with the KX range though, and can't share your enthusiasm for them. In all though, I'd give Kawai my 'best improver' award for progress in the last few years.

sussexpianos wrote:Kawai are very loyal to their dealers and do their best to keep, ( as PG put it) silly boys discounting at them on the internet. I know a few Yam dealers which complain about the huge discounts offered by "silly boys", when you work it out, the dealer is only getting around 5%, this is no where near enough with the huge overheads.

Good on Kawai then. Yamaha are treating their dealers like crap if they expect them to soldier on in the light of the discount idiots. A search on the net reveals no discount Kawai prices at all, apart from a few 10% offs here and there from the likes of Jaques Samuel, which is fair enough; a good incentive but not enough off to compromise quality. I hope Kawai's reputation grows and grows. If it does then their reputation for poor resale values will improve. I hate to say it, because I love their products so much, but Yamaha deserve to go under.

sussexpianos wrote:In the long run, Yamaha will suffer because many dealers will drop them and people will not have the chance to try the pianos without travelling many miles and not having the back up of a local dealer who could sort out problems quickly.

Let's hope they put a stop to the fools who cheapen their products before they're left with just one or two dealers then. I know of a few major retailers in various parts of the country who can no longer make a sensible profit on Yamaha and are seriously considering dropping the brand altogether. Strange that Kemble, essentially the same products as Yamaha, seem to be sold at much higher margins. Maybe the 'Englishness" of the brand appeals to a different class of client?

sussexpianos wrote:Midi is important, seems a bit silly to leave it out!

It certainly is. I've noticed that a few Yamaha dealers are advertising b1 and b2 Silents with MIDI as a feature. If they haven't noticed it's not actually fitted, I can't imagine how completely rubbish their pre-delivery preparation must be.

I despair.

A440 · Post by **A440** » 22 Oct 2006, 11:07

Barrie Heaton wrote:
PianoGuy wrote:SHOCK!!:shock:

The b1 and b2 Silent pianos are not equipped with MIDI of any description!
All for the sake of a 20p plug MIDI out is there as the thing is making a signal for the silent bit, I can understand not having the MIDI in as that is more complex but they have the units I place for all the other models why take a step back

Its what most of the kids want for composing for school work

Quite a few dealers are dropping yam as there is no profit in the lower end pianos. Which is not good for Yam, when dealers drop a product then normally rubbish it after and if you get a lot doing that it soon sticks.

I also heard the other day when Yamaha UK move to Holland the UK production will stop then main plant will close and Kemble?s may have to move production to Indonesia. Now that will be sad

Barrie,

Barrie,

A440 · Post by **A440** » 22 Oct 2006, 11:15

Whoops...
I haven't heard about Kemble's possible move. That would be sad indeed. They really have got a good product and, more importantly, a great back-up for aftersales. In this respect they couldn't be more unlike Yamaha who are just too global-trousers to give a monkeys.
I think Kembles, if toned properly in the factory, are the perfect antidote to this Yamaha-something-for-nothing craze. Call me old fashioned but you Really Can buy a british product to feel proud about (I can't think of any others off hand...)

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 22 Oct 2006, 14:42

A440 wrote:Whoops...
I haven't heard about Kemble's possible move. That would be sad indeed.

_._._._

I think Kembles, if toned properly in the factory, are the perfect antidote to this Yamaha-something-for-nothing craze.

Yeah but they're not are they? I mean, the K121s and Conservatories are lovely, but at the bottom of the range, the Studio is an unsaleable, ugly, badly specced and shoddily finished heap of mediocrity and the Cambridge only looks good in a poly finish or Georgian Mahogany Lustre which adds hundreds to the price. Add the fact that they're invariably unvoiced out of the box, and sound like a fingernail on a blackboard and you've got an uncompetitive product. For the first time in history, the small Kembles are voiced brighter than the small Yamahas.

The Kemble-built Yamahas are also now brighter sounding than the Jap stuff. I reckon that some joker in Hamamatsu is telling Milton Keynes that they want "blighter sounding pianos", just to get UK sales of Kemble built pianos to drop, so that they can then declare that the UK factory is "unplofitable".

Don't fall for their treachery Brian! If you're reading this, lets have some nice mellow pianos like we're used to from your factory. In the last few years I've been made to look a right Charlie by telling customers that Kembles are mellower sounding than Yamahas, and that's a good reason to 'Buy British' only to find that the piano they've bought sounds brighter than a Victorian Barrel Organ. Hate to say this, but the current crop of b1s are better sounding than a Cambridge at 2/3 the price, or less from the discount whorehouses.

It would be tragic if Britain lost its piano industry altogether, and Kemble can only survive buy building a product that is distinctive when compared to thousands of its Japanese sisters. That distinction was once characterised by a range of attractive finishes and a sweeter tone. Get those qualities back before it's too late.