C. Rordorf & Cie Zürich

[Larry2006]

Hi: We're still learning about the history of pianos and would like to learn a little more about the one we just purchased. Not sure if you can help us, thought I'd ask. We're from the US and have been working here in Germany the past few years and have been looking at a few grand pianos during this time. My wife plays a little and just had to have one. Anyway we found one and the German owner did not know much about the history of it. I have spend some time on the web with no results? Tried everything I could think of. What we have is 6'3" Grand - name is C. Hordorf & Cie Zürich we found two numbers inside (serial #'s ?) one is 5171 and the other 28839 and it also has a patent no. 2201 we found on a plate under the piano. We had hope to learner more about the maker, where it was made and when. As I mention with not much luck. There was another tag which I believe was the shipper - "Grade Meuble Emballage & Transport".

Pusey
Beaumont
Crassier

23, 25, 27,
Rue Des Petites
Ecuries
Paris

Can you please help us. I register in the forum uk-piano.org site with above e-mail address.

thanks for any help.

[Bill Kibby]

It's actually Rordorf according my information, but it's probably fancy script making life difficult as usual! They were established in 1847, and were still in business 1911, but gone by 1928. No dates of serial numbers are available, so have a look at the Datemarks page at the link below. Meuble means "furnishings or decoration", Emballage means "packing". There is a website for the European Patents Office.

[Muus]

I own a Rordorf from 1889, it was made in Zuerich. Now I live in Israel and move to the US and have to provide them with information on what animals ivory was used for the keys.

Does anyone have an idea where I could find information about that?

[Bill Kibby]

I thought ivory was a term only applied to elephants? Certainly they are the only animals I know of providing ivory for piano keys, since mammoths are extinct. Earlier insruments did use bone or horn. The people who ask these questions should already know the answer!

[Bill Kibby]

I'm out of my depth here, but I understand that export and import licenes are required, one from each country. However, I can't see what is gained from knowing the animal that was used in 1889! Some pianos are exempt.

[Muus]

When I got the email from the authorities... I thought I am getting a stroke.. I felt like.. I don't own a Piano but an endangered animal.. rofls.. maybe I should feed my Piano more often, not to be charged with animal abuse or so.

Here is what they sent me. (crazy I think)

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the importation of a piano with ivory keys that will require clearance by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Our mission is, working with others, to conserve, protect and enhance fish, wildlife, and plants and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American people.

Unfortunately, we do not have enough information to give to you an accurate complete answer to your question.

There are several species of animals that have ivory tusks and without more specific information, we cannot determine to what extent the species used in the manufacture of your piano keys is protected and what the requirements are for the importation of products from that species.

Presumably, the ivory used in the manufacture of your piano keys is elephant ivory.

Should that be the case, you will need to obtain a Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) Pre-Convention certificate from the CITES Management Authority in the country of export in order to import your piano into the United States. CITES is an international agreement between governments. Its aim is to ensure that international trade in specimens of wild animals and plants does not threaten their survival. The species covered by CITES are listed in three appendices according to the degree of protection they need. Appendix I includes species threatened with extinction. Trade in specimens of these species is permitted only in exceptional circumstances. Appendix II includes species not necessarily threatened with extinction, but for which trade must be controlled in order to avoid overutilization that may threaten them with extinction. Appendix III contains species that are protected in at least one country, which has asked other CITES Party countries for assistance in controlling the trade in that species.

You can find contact information for CITES Management Authorities on the CITES website at: http://www.cites.org/ .

As you prepare to import your piano, you must also complete Form 3-177, Declaration for Importation or Exportation of Fish or Wildlife. You can find this form on our website at the following address: http://www.fws.gov/le/ImpExp/faqs.htm. This form is not difficult to complete, although you must provide the scientific name for the species of animal used in the manufacture of the ivory keys on your piano that you wish to import.

Please have this form completed and have it, the original exporting country CITES Pre-Convention certificate, and your piano available for inspection as you prepare to import it into the United States.

You must import your piano at a designated port. You can find a list of designated ports, which includes Chicago, and contact information for those ports on our website at the following address: http://www.fws.gov/le/ImpExp/Designated_Ports.htm. We suggest that you contact in advance the port where you will be importing your piano in order to coordinate its clearance into the United States.

Thank you for your cooperation in complying with our regulations that help protect fish, wildlife, and plants and their habitats. Please feel free to respond to this message with any further inquiries that you may have regarding this matter.

[Muus]

I'm out of my depth here, but I understand that export and import licenes are required, one from each country. However, I can't see what is gained from knowing the animal that was used in 1889! Some pianos are exempt.

Exactly .. the elephant would be dead by now anyways... I don't understand the whole fuss about it.

When I moved from Switzerland to Israel I didn't even need an export/ import license...

[Katmid]

Hi... at last something on the history thread that I can help with!
This quote is from the CBP.gov website:

"You may import an object made of ivory if it is an antique. To be an antique the ivory must be at least 100 years old. You will need documentation that authenticates the age of the ivory."

Unless you have told them that the piano is an antique, they may assume that you are importing something modern, in which case you would need the import license they've told you about. Apparently, Warthog ivory is the unrestricted... I guess Mammoth Ivory is too... because strictly speaking it's a fossil, not really ivory!

[Muus]

Yes I told them, that it is an antique piano, but I need all kind of papers. I need to let them know what Ivory was used (how the heck should I know that.. lol), I need an advocat to sign all kind of documents of the piano restaurator (because that is all the papers I can get) then I need a special form from Israel to "export" the piano (what a joke, when I imported the piano from switzerland), and a form for the "import" into the USA. I am not even sure, I can send it with my container of special by air... a big big headache... seriously...

[Joyceteje]

Even if your piano is a certified antique (i.e. over 100 years old) you will need to have a Cites pre-convention certificate.
The website states that antiques may be exempt, but I called the USF&W service division of management authority at 1-800-344-WILD and was told that even an antique needs to have Cites permit. What they really need is a certificate stqating that your piano's ivory predates 1973 and that no modifications were made to the keyboard with newer ivory.
An antique piano will get the permit a lot easier.
I am the person who posted the question about the Jacob Doll piano. I am trying to take it to the US from Colombia. These people will not even give me the Cites form to start filling out.
If you think that this is a hassle for an elephant that would be dead anyway (which I agree with), let me tell you that things are much worse trying to export my vintage-antique piano from Colombia. After all paperwork is completed, I need to get a special one day permit in order to transport my piano from home to the airport, since elephants are an endangered species. Yeah right, with all the elephants that live in Bogota, Colombia!!!
This is bureaucracy at its best! I would laugh if I were not the one with this problem.
Good luck with your piano moving.
Joyce.