Opinions on Yamaha B1/B2

[drmrbrewer]

Hi all

I'm interested in your opinions on the Yamaha B1 and B2 uprights. I don't play myself, but am keen to encourage my children to do so and would therefore like a reasonable quality, yet relatively affordable, piano for our home. The Yamaha B1 and B2 struck me as perhaps fitting the bill. (With children around, the "silent" version is also quite tempting!)

Any opinions would be gratefully received. I'd also be interested in your views on alternatives to the Yamaha B1/B2.

Thanks,

Mike

[Barrie Heaton]

The silent versions are not in the UK yet or if they are there are only a few retailers who will have them The B1 is far better than the C110 that it replaced and out of the box is not a bad piano at all, which it has to be with the ridiculous price some retailers are selling it for you can’t spend the time on them for that price. However, I was taking to a retailer the other day who had his tuner spend a day on each one in the show room and he said that quite a few who had been trying the B1 in other shops noted that his was much better than other that they had seen some were prepped to pay the extra Ł300.00 and some just wanted the discounted price My self I think most who are looking at the B1 would not appreciate the difference

As for the B2 the same applies However, I would look at the Schumann Upright Piano 122 cms at Ł1600 a very good piano, but limited to were you can get it also the Wendl & Lung 122 More available but not quite as good as the Schumann

Barrie

[PianoGuy]

Absolutely. They are half decent out of the box, so pile em high sell em cheap is the order of the day.

B2 is slightly better than b1 because of the traditional cabinet which marginally helps tone, but boosts what residual value there may be. Note that the stupid discount prices are less easy to find on the b2. If you seriously like the b1/2 why not ask your dealer to prepare one properly and pay a less measly price for it. That way you get a good piano.

The Silent models are a different kettle of fish, since they are unique in their price bracket. I don't think they've hit these shores yet, but due in any time. If the Silent facility is what you need, then they're unbeatable. There is some confusion as to whether there is MIDI in/out on the b series Silents. If Yamaha have deleted this facility in order to save a few pennies in cash they've missed a trick. No mention of MIDI is mentioned in brochures and I would advise anybody considering one to investigate first. A Digital piano without MIDI is a severely limited bit of kit.

Agreed with B.H. on the Wendl & Lung, but saw a Brodmann upright yesterday. These are both serious pianos of 121cm or therabouts (Yamaha U1 size) for the same sort of money as a non-discounted b1 which appears toy-like in comparison.

PG

[drmrbrewer]

Thanks, Barrie and PG. Some food for thought. It did strike me as odd that some guys out there were selling the B1/B2 at knock-down prices, but perhaps you have given some insight as to why. Although there do appear to be one or two apparently "reputable" dealers who are offering good prices. What I'd like to know is... does the price differential accurately reflect the cost of getting a professional to do some tinkering to bring the piano up to its full potential... i.e. would it cost that much to pay someone separately? Sorry for the ignorance in this respect.

The Wendl & Lung seems more difficult to come by on the web, even just to get some sort of price comparison to the Yamaha. It does have some good reviews, though, and is worth a look.

When the B1/B2 silent models do arrive here in the UK, would you imagine they would be hard to come by, and if so, for how long?

Many thanks.

Mike

[PianoGuy]

I don't think that either of us are saying that the discounts are being given by disreputable dealers, but simply that at the low prices of around 1350 quid or so for a b1, there's no money in the deal for the dealer to do anything but a basic check-over and tuning before sale rather than proper preparation which can transform these pianos, no matter what claims the dealer will make to the contrary. Why not approach your local Yam dealer and tell him that you know the score, namely that he's probably selling so cheaply to beat online prices or those from the big discount dealers, and ask how much for a b1 with quality preparation and service such as befits a musical instrument rather than a washing machine. He will breathe a sigh of relief and probably still give you a decent discount. Also, make sure you buy the exact piano that you play and choose in the shop, or there's no hope for getting exactly what you want. Pianos are not white goods, and it's about time that the trade stopped discounting so heavily. 30% off for no reason is tempting, but wrong.

There's a lesson to be learned from this thread.

Pianos are not white goods, and it's about time that the trade stopped discounting so heavily. 30% is tempting, but wrong. It is totally impossible to offer individually prepared pianos at these prices without making a loss, so no matter who's telling you to the contrary, take it with a pinch of salty stuff.

[drmrbrewer]

So would you say that the "free bespoke preparation service" from "the UK's No. 1 Yamaha dealer" is little more than a sales gimmick?

Mike

[Barrie Heaton]

The main retailers who do a lot of discounted pianos have some very talented tuners working for them and do give the piano a good once over. However, just because your local shop is not discounting that will not guarantee that the piano is even tuned in the shop or before you get it never mind looking at the regulating or toning it. However, lets be honest most who buy the B1 would not appreciate the extra time now the person who comes along to advise may

The silent one will be widely available to dealers who wish to stock them

Barrie,

[drmrbrewer]

Another question: since the idea is that it will be my children take up and enjoy playing the piano (although perhaps I'm not too old to learn new tricks), are the B1/B2/W&L suitable? I would imagine that some pianos are easier / more satisfying to play on when just starting out (and with small fingers).

Thanks,

Mike

[PianoGuy]

So would you say that the "free bespoke preparation service" from "the UK's No. 1 Yamaha dealer" is little more than a sales gimmick?

Mike

Pretty much.

It cannot repeat CANNOT be done at the price. My guess is that a 'mellow' or 'bright' one is dragged out from the warehouse to suit, and a bit of tidying up done on the worst notes. A proper session of voicing and prep costs a day of a good technician's time. that's 2-300 pounds.

I'm sure though that in a tiny minority of cases, ie those where people actually bother to visit the dealers in question and choose a piano in person, that the dealer will (if insisted upon) supply the actual piano played in the showroom and adjust it to taste, so the claims are not really bogus. It's just that for any dealer discounting that heavily to survive, he has to be selling on quantity so he must spend a fraction of proper preparation time/effort on the vast majority of the pianos sold for the economics to work out. As Barrie pointed out, most people wouldn't know the difference unless a properly prepared piano and a fresh off the truck one were side by side and compared. Even then they'd probably need a technician to show them the difference.

I'm not against discounts, but I'm very much against the monopoly that a few dealers have on certain piano brands due to box-shifting techniques best suited to naff car supermarkets and electrical discount warehouses, even if they dress up the fact with technical talk, because they are cheapening the public's perception of the brand, making a nonsence of list price and killing the competition who want to compete with a quality well-prepared product . They may as well be selling seconds or b-grade goods.

At the price level of a b1 sold at Ł1350 or so (plus say 100-150 in real costs for delivery and tuning) the dealer is making a fraction over a hundred and fifty quid on each piano, assuming that they've wangled maximum discount off their trade price from Yamaha. This is for a piano with a 5-year guarantee backed up initially by the dealer. There is not enough money in this to provide anything more than a cursory once over at the shop (assuming they're selling loads of them) nor is there the time in the day to do it! If they were sensible, they could sell a nicely prepared product for say Ł1750 delivered, still enabling the consumer to have a good chunk off list price and a better product.

If all you want is a workmanlike piano at the lowest price, go for the discount, but if you want a properly prepared piano be prepared to pay more.

You pays your money... free lunch... etc.

PG

[drmrbrewer]

PG: Thanks for the advice. I'm sure you're right. With margins squeezed, something must give.

But, as you say, if you go along in person and insist upon having the one on display (and presumably prepped up to a good standard), then you can't go far wrong?

In fact, how much does the delivery process affect the quality of a piano -- does the act of lumping it across the country knock things out of kilter again? Perhaps it depends to a large extent on the build quality (and the care taken by the deliverers)?

Cheers,

Mike

P.S. I'm still interested in your view as to whether the B1/B2/W&L are at all suitable for the smaller and weaker playing fingers of a child... do the keys have a suitable action (or whatever the technical term is) for children? Or doesn't it matter too much?

[PianoGuy]

But, as you say, if you go along in person and insist upon having the one on display (and presumably prepped up to a good standard), then you can't go far

You're right.... And if everybody did this, there'd be no discounters, because they wouldn't have the time to prepare all of them!... You're not Mike "Deals On Wheels" Brewer are you?

Pianos of this quality are fine for young players, since the actions are good and even with an average touch weight.

The transportation of a piano over distance won't harm it, a Yamaha comes from the Far East after all, but for possible future warranty service I'd be tempted to buy from a dealer close to home if you can.

[drmrbrewer]

Thanks for the further advice, PG.

You're not Mike "Deals On Wheels" Brewer are you?

Hehe. Nope. Nor am I this guy:

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/rugby-he ... HeroID=972

http://stats.allblacks.com/Profile.asp?ABID=85

(who also shares the same middle as myself.)

Cheers,

Mike