I took delivery of a new Yamaha P121 at the end of June. While I'm generally happy with it and becoming more used to the touch and sound (previously had a digital P120) there are some keys where the sound is a little dull, and one or two where the strings seem to vibrate in what seems like a slight upward frequency after being struck instead of a steady note - if that makes any sense. I had the piano tuned about two weeks ago and intend to have it tuned as often as necessary until it settles down.
It seems to me that it could do with a proper voicing. So, my question is really whether it's still too early to bother about the above given that both hammers and strings are new. Would I be better to wait a while? I understand that it may take up to a year before the whole contraption decides to behave itself and settle down. Trouble is, I'm finding that even slight 'off' notes are bugging me and interfering with my practising! The impression I have is that there's a lovely sound in there somewhere, just waiting to get out (and I don't mean my playing!)
Would really appreciate any advice on voicing and getting the best out of my new piano you gurus could give me.
Thanks!
Voicing a new piano...
Moderators: Feg, Gill the Piano, Melodytune
Is it the actual piano you played in the dealer's showroom? If so, was the tone OK to your ears then?
Obviously, room environment makes a difference to a piano's tone.
I'm a bit puzzled by the 'rising' pitch that you have noticed. A dropping of pitch is sometimes a characteristic, owing to the extra tension momentarily applied at the initial impact of the hammer. Where in the compass does this happen?
Obviously, room environment makes a difference to a piano's tone.
I'm a bit puzzled by the 'rising' pitch that you have noticed. A dropping of pitch is sometimes a characteristic, owing to the extra tension momentarily applied at the initial impact of the hammer. Where in the compass does this happen?
I don't believe it!
Seems I woke someone up!
Yeah, generally, I'm very happy with it... There are a few notes which seem to have a 'buzz' which causes the initially struck note to rise very slightly after the initial impact of the hammers (string out of unison, or hammer out of alignment, maybe?) Some other notes are just 'dull' sounding. Most of the others are very nice - some are even gorgeous...
Just want the whole thing evened out and wondered if having the piano properly voiced would be a waste of time given the newness, and if so, how long should I wait?
Apologies if my questions seem naive. Used to having a digital which never goes out of tune. The reason I got the piano in the first place was to improve my playing. All I've been listening to since I got it is an out of tune pain in the ass - even though I've had it tuned!
...and I'm the most impatient guy on the planet, but I really do appreciate your reply. Cheers.
Yeah, generally, I'm very happy with it... There are a few notes which seem to have a 'buzz' which causes the initially struck note to rise very slightly after the initial impact of the hammers (string out of unison, or hammer out of alignment, maybe?) Some other notes are just 'dull' sounding. Most of the others are very nice - some are even gorgeous...
Just want the whole thing evened out and wondered if having the piano properly voiced would be a waste of time given the newness, and if so, how long should I wait?
Apologies if my questions seem naive. Used to having a digital which never goes out of tune. The reason I got the piano in the first place was to improve my playing. All I've been listening to since I got it is an out of tune pain in the ass - even though I've had it tuned!
...and I'm the most impatient guy on the planet, but I really do appreciate your reply. Cheers.
I'm glad that you are generally pleased with your piano. The P121 can be a very fine and rewarding piano. It is well made, very attractive and beautifully designed. Essentially it's a U1 of course.
I usually recommend waiting at least a couple of months before any voicing of a new piano. Ideally in fact, waiting until the first tuning after the one you should have got free from the dealer after delivery.
You still haven't said whether the piano was the actual one chosen by you in the showroom, or where in the compass of the piano your problem notes are.. This is important for accurate advice!!
I usually recommend waiting at least a couple of months before any voicing of a new piano. Ideally in fact, waiting until the first tuning after the one you should have got free from the dealer after delivery.
You still haven't said whether the piano was the actual one chosen by you in the showroom, or where in the compass of the piano your problem notes are.. This is important for accurate advice!!
Patience, Piano Guy, old boy...
I tried a couple of P121s and a couple of U1s before deciding to buy mine from 'The No 1 Yamaha dealer in the UK' (and he lived up to his promise). So, no, my piano isn't the actual one I tried. For a few reasons. First, I took for granted Yamaha build quality (I've been using a Yamaha digital P120) and in my ignorance assumed that, to my inexperienced ear, the differences between individual examples of the same model would be minimal - plus the fact that given the acoustics in the showroom and my home the sound would be completely different anyway. Almost all the dealers I visited and internet browsing confirm your comments about the P121 being a British U1 and the difference in price made the choice easy. The above mentioned dealer was a joy to deal with and the piano was delivered by a very professional bunch of guys without a hitch or the slightest scratch.
It is a beautiful bit of kit for the money and I want to get the very best sound I can out of it. It's in there somewhere, I know it! There's some tubbiness in the tenor region (normal, I understand) no other particular region is affected and the rest of the keyboard contains a gradation of sound from really gorgeous to bloody awful. So, naturally I want it all to sound as gorgeous as poss. After all, that's what you pay for isn't it? The dealer recommends that I have it tuned 'hard' next time. Any further comments or advice, especially on voicing? I should add that I practice about three hours a day and a bit more than that at the weekends, so it does get some use (but not abuse). I did read somewhere that recording studio pianos are tuned 3 or 4 times a week... Do I have to learn to live with it being always slightly out of tune?
Thanks in advance.
Baz (waiting IMPATIENTLY for your reply)
I tried a couple of P121s and a couple of U1s before deciding to buy mine from 'The No 1 Yamaha dealer in the UK' (and he lived up to his promise). So, no, my piano isn't the actual one I tried. For a few reasons. First, I took for granted Yamaha build quality (I've been using a Yamaha digital P120) and in my ignorance assumed that, to my inexperienced ear, the differences between individual examples of the same model would be minimal - plus the fact that given the acoustics in the showroom and my home the sound would be completely different anyway. Almost all the dealers I visited and internet browsing confirm your comments about the P121 being a British U1 and the difference in price made the choice easy. The above mentioned dealer was a joy to deal with and the piano was delivered by a very professional bunch of guys without a hitch or the slightest scratch.
It is a beautiful bit of kit for the money and I want to get the very best sound I can out of it. It's in there somewhere, I know it! There's some tubbiness in the tenor region (normal, I understand) no other particular region is affected and the rest of the keyboard contains a gradation of sound from really gorgeous to bloody awful. So, naturally I want it all to sound as gorgeous as poss. After all, that's what you pay for isn't it? The dealer recommends that I have it tuned 'hard' next time. Any further comments or advice, especially on voicing? I should add that I practice about three hours a day and a bit more than that at the weekends, so it does get some use (but not abuse). I did read somewhere that recording studio pianos are tuned 3 or 4 times a week... Do I have to learn to live with it being always slightly out of tune?
Thanks in advance.
Baz (waiting IMPATIENTLY for your reply)
Aha!Baz wrote: I tried a couple of P121s and a couple of U1s before deciding to buy mine from 'The No 1 Yamaha dealer in the UK' (and he lived up to his promise). So, no, my piano isn't the actual one I tried.
You HAVE to try the actual piano you will end up with because they are all different. Pianos from the Yamaha Milton Keynes factory do in fact vary considerably, and a tiny amount of arbitrary 'dealer prep' will hardly do anything to help.
You have bought a premium product at a fat discount of up to 30% off rrp. A bit like buying a Lexus from a car supermarket, so here's where the 'savings' you've made will come in handy: In paying for a top class technician to spend a day on your piano (preferably with you on hand for guidance in what sort of sound you want) for a day of expert voicing. The notes that sound too dull will be more of an effort to rectify. These could be the result of an overworked in-house technician belting through a cursory voicing of your piano in double quick time so he can fit in the twenty others he has to do that afternoon. If the cause of the dullness is over-needling of the felt, a doping fluid will have to be applied to the hammers to harden them up. It's an involved and very skilled job and not one which can be 'included' as a freebie in the purchase price of a new piano bought at such a discount.
All is not lost, but you'll have to part company with some of that discount! Here's what to do now. You look in Yellow Pages and find a convincing looking advert for a piano tuner-technician. A PTA logo or ABPT logo on the ad may help you to select a decent tuner, but always double-check on your choice. For example, call the most expensive private school or music college in the area and ask who they use as a piano technician. Call a few piano teachers and ask who they use.
When you're satisfied you've found the right technician, tell him what you want from your piano, tell him that it may well have been over-needled in some areas, and make an appointment for a day's tuning and voicing. A piano CANNOT be voiced correctly unless it is very much in tune, so make sure his voicing process includes an initial tuning. If not, walk away. It should cost you up to Ł300. This kind of preparation should be included in the purchase price IMO, and a sensible price charged for the piano in the first place. You cannot expect perfection when the dealer is making just a couple of hundred quid on each sale. Your 'No1' dealer either relies on a clientele who are less discerning than yourself and are just happy with the lowest price, or puts more effort into some sales over others. Whatever, it's quantity sales, not quality that pays for his foreign holidays.
ALTERNATIVELY:
Call your dealer and tell him you're not happy with the piano. If he prides himself on service then he will pay an independent technician to sort it to your satisfaction. It will pain him because after he's paid for the work to be done he will be making zero profit on the sale. Maybe even a loss.
Good luck.