Erard 31173

[ehughes]

Mr. Kibby, First let me tell you how much I have enjoyed reading through this message board. There is so much information available here it is really incredible. I have just been given an Erard grand piano in a rosewood case that has the number 31173 stamped on the piano in two places - (1) centered on the top edge of the folded back part of the top and (2) if you are seated at the piano - under the nearest right edge on the right side on the frame. The Piano also has a Gold Medallion that I imagine was more for decoration than to help determine its age. My guess is that the number 31173 must mean something because it is marked that way in two different places? I apologize if my explanation is confusing. After reading your message board I'm also not sure if it was made in Paris or London. I was told it was from France but again - after reading your message board - I'm guessing that many people get that wrong. FYI - the name above the keys very clearly says "Erard" but it doesn't say London or Paris as some of the others I've seen in pictures. I have several pictures that I can send but was hoping to get your thoughts on where else I should look for serial numbers or dates so I could send you a complete set of pictures. As you can probably understand - I need basic instructions on where to look as I am not an expert on the names of the different parts of a grand piano. Again, I really enjoy your message board. Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.

[Bill Kibby]

Paris numbers would suggest about 1859, but the earlier published numbers for Erard Paris are incorrect, as you can read at
http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/piano ... mbers.html

Erard pianos can sometimes suffer from the normal problems explained in the Numbers page on my website, associated with relying purely on numbers to date pianos, and some of the numbers shown on Erard's Paris pianos don't correspond to the published lists of dates, for example a grand which is supposedly 1913 appears to be much earlier, perhaps around 1880. I can arrange for a researcher to look for information in the Erard archives, but there will be a fee.

Numbers for most makers will go through a period when they are in four figures, and may resemble a year, so it is important to realise that pianos are hardly ever marked with just a year. A notable exception is Erard, because many of their antique pianos are marked with a year: In the Paris-made grands, this appears on a small oblong of wood inside the top, to the left of the strings. Quite apart from the available research into Erards’ original archive material, these simple dates on the pianos prove that the published numbers are wrong, and I would be grateful for numbers and years of any examples anyone may find. On London grands, it is necessary to remove the action in order to look at the left-hand surface of it. The biggest problem is that if it doesn't say Paris or London on the piano, you may be unsure where it was made, and this affects the numbers. In 1792, Sebastien Erard set up a factory at 18 Great Marlborough Street, London. Pianos from Erard, London have quite different numbers to those published for the Paris pianos. Some of the pianos are labelled "Patent Erard London", but "S. & P. Erard" can also indicate a London instrument.

[ehughes]

Mr. Kibby,

Thank you very much for your posting. I went through the piano as you prescribed but was unable to find a date on the wood inside the top to the left of the strings.

On the other hand I did find another marking of the number 31173 that is written on the wood. I find it interesting that the number is in the location that you told me to look? At least I think I was in the correct location.

This newly found "entry" of 31173 is written rather elegantly versus the two other spots where it was stamped into the wood.

Could there be more places that I should look? This piano has captured my full attention and I'd really like to learn more about it.

Any additional suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Evan Hughes

[Bill Kibby]

It's not a perfect rule, but if it doesn't say "London", it's probably Paris. Also, the number is too high for a London Erard. If you could email me a view of the whole piano, and some interior details, I may be able to say more. I can arrange for a researcher to check the original archives, but there will be a fee.