JW Butcher - 27342

PaulMcc · Post by **PaulMcc** » 11 Nov 2003, 15:15

I've just bought an old piano that I'd like to know more about. It's an upright, made by J.W. Butcher of 28 Ludgate Circus Bldgs, London. There is a number on the pinboard, 27342.

Any info would be appreciated.

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 12 Nov 2003, 12:48

No, I haven't got anything ready on this Butcher, only Thomas Biutcher. Tell me more! Or search for PianoGen and press some buttons!

PaulMcc · Post by **PaulMcc** » 12 Nov 2003, 13:28

Hmmn. I had a look around on PianoGen and couldn't find anything either. It's a large upright (I don't have the size right now), maybe around 130" tall. Casework is veneered, iron framed, underdamped. The only markings I can find are the makers name and address and the number on the sound board.

Caveat - I'm not really a piano player, I'm a guitarist (boo hiss!) so I don't really know a great deal about pianos. I bought it to let my very young daughters have a play around and hopefully develop an interest, at which point I'll buy something decent. As such the general condition could be described as "seen some action". I was just interested to find anything about it. It cost me next to nothing from an antique warehouse, so I wasn't expecting quality!

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 12 Nov 2003, 19:29

Sorry if I didn't make it clear, but I did say I haven't got any information ready, so I couldn't have put it on the website, I was referring to general help, such as Aliases, Datemarks, Valuation, etc.. He doesn't appear in any of my London lists, so it is almost certainly an alias. Photos might enable me to tell you more, if you email them to me direct.

PaulMcc · Post by **PaulMcc** » 25 Nov 2003, 10:51

I've just had a tuner in to give this the once over. He thinks it may be a re-badged Kemble from about 1890. Unfortunately a couple of the pins are a bit loose, so it won't go to concert and I'll have to put up with it being a major 3rd down. Since it's for my kids to mess around with I won't worry too much about this, and I'll replace it with something better in a year or two when the risk of felt tip and crayon diminishes

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 25 Nov 2003, 10:57

Kembles didn't exist then. A couple of loose pins shouldn't be used as an excuse to have the pitvh so low, just replace the pins! I could tell you more from photos, and I presume you have checked for datemarks, key and action makers' marks etc.?

PaulMcc · Post by **PaulMcc** » 25 Nov 2003, 11:12

Fair enough! I'll check for action marks and so on and get some photos. However I just spoke to the tuner again. He reckons that most of the pins are a bit loose, with several in worse condition and to get it to concert would need them all replaced. Given the value of the piano that wouldn't make sense.

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 27 Nov 2003, 17:02

Yes, I'm afraid that's what usually signals the end of a piano, when it needs repinning and restringing. Central heating is often a major factor, but age comes into it too, and the quality of the original plank.

PaulMcc · Post by **PaulMcc** » 28 Nov 2003, 11:11

It's a shame, since this appears to be the only thing awry with the mechanics of the piano. Given the amount invested in it (next to nothing) and the fact that it might get junked anyway, I'm tempted to remove the plank and cut a new one from a new blank. There's no point paying a professional to do it and I've already got all the bandsaws and drill presses I need. If it doesn't work, I'm no worse off. No doubt my tuner will have a fit tonight when he comes round to sort it and I run this past him!

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 28 Nov 2003, 12:08

If it costs you very little, why not go for it! You'd have to drill two hundred holes precisely in the right places, at precisely the right angles, and then it still needs restringing though, and a professional will still charge the same, because he is doing the same work as he would with the old plank. It may be that the plank is fine, and bigger pins would solve it. Then, when it's done, you have to keep it from dry heat, see
http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/centr ... ianos.html

PaulMcc · Post by **PaulMcc** » 28 Nov 2003, 13:08

I'm aware of what it takes to make a new plank - I do a lot of woodwork and cutting a new blank from a template made from the old one, then drilling 200 holes at a precise 7% angle to a precise depth at precise points doesn't fill me with horror. I dare say I could even install the pins and hook up the strings myself. I would of course get a tuner in to get the thing up to concert and regulate the action. I'm not trying to undermine the skills of professional tuners and restorers for whom I have the greatest respect.

My point is it would be a shame to junk it when I could replace the main failed part myself. It's not worth paying &1600 to a restorer who would probably not take the job since the piano is in no way worth the work done. I tend to look at these things practically. If it was worth anything I wouldn't attempt it as I may ruin something valuable. If it isn't valuable and doesn't work properly, then what's the harm? I've rebuilt a couple classic cars and built a couple of boats from scratch, so mechanics and woodwork don't scare me. I would just look on it as a little project and if it works, great. If not, it's not the end of the world.